José Borghans is professor of Quantitative Immunology at the UMC Utrecht. Working closely with colleague Kiki Tesselaar, she does fundamental research on immunological memory. Ultimately the aim is to find better treatments for chronic inflammatory diseases such as Crohn’s disease and psoriasis. In her field, animal experiments are currently impossible to get around. In this interview she talks about the route to better science using fewer animals, as well as the use of wildling mice.